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Cornell Community Discussions >> New Urbanism Discussions >> MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell Ctr.
(Message started by: SteveH on Sep 17th, 2006, 12:57am)

Title: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell Ctr.
Post by SteveH on Sep 17th, 2006, 12:57am
Markham Interchurch Committee for Affordable Housing (MICAH) will be presenting a proposal for 120 unit affordable apartments.  These will be located on the United Church lands facing Hwy 7.  These lands are part of a 20 acre parcel of land that will be developed by Kylemore Homes.  One of the partners of Kylemore, built and owns the Angus Glen Golf and Country Club.  Kylemore was then formed to develop the Angus Glen lands.

http://www.markham.ca/markham/ccbs/indexfile/Agendas/2006/Development%20Services-Economic%20Development/September%2019/markham%20interchurch.PDF

We will know by March of next year whether this proposal was approved.  If given the green light they will have less than 3 years to build and fill the facility in order to get government funding.  So this could get built rather quickly.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by mbds on Sep 18th, 2006, 8:53am
Some concern here, but as long as the buildings are of good quality, again, are architecturally compatible with Cornell, and very well designed, pedestrian & transit friendly etc., they should be okay. No ghettos please.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 18th, 2006, 10:17am
In the past Kylemore homes has built mainly larger and/or custom built homes.  It will be interesting to see what they have planned for the affordable apartments as well as the other 500 mid to high density homes.  It is also interesting to note that Ballantry had a similar background before they started building in Cornell.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by amiyum on Sep 18th, 2006, 10:40am
Does anyone know of any other rental affordable housing units in Markham and how well they are maintained?  While I do support the concepts of affordable housing, I’m a bit concern with the number of rental units in the community. I’ve not been impressed with the maintenance of Toronto Metro Housing and other affordable housing buildings. I’m hoping Markham and MICAH has higher standards for the rental apartments. I hate to see buildings with sheets hanging from the windows, damaged multicolored window coverings and messy balconies. Maybe I’m allowing my mind to be carried away too much, but that’s what I’ve seen in affordable housing in T.O.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by amiyum on Sep 18th, 2006, 10:53am

on 09/18/06 at 10:19:24, AspenRidgeBuyer wrote:
I am also concerned with this proposed development but it has nothing to do with architectural design or ghetto formation.

The memo provided by SteveH says that MICAH intends "to provide up to 20 rental apartment units to persons with mental illness or dual diagnosis..."

Now I personally had no idea what "dual diagnosis" was, so I went to the website for the Canadian Mental Health Association and was a little perturbed by what I read.  Apparently "in Canada, dual diagnosis usually refers to a person with a mental illness and a co-occurring developmental disability...but in the United States, and sometimes in Canada, dual diagnosis refers to concurrent disorders".  So I read a little more and found that "a concurrent disorder combines both a mental health problem and a substance use problem. Someone with major depression who also abuses alcohol has a concurrent disorder, for example, as does a person with schizophrenia who abuses cannabis. It's uncertain how many people have concurrent disorders, but it is known that people with mental illnesses have higher rates of addiction than people in the general population".

So needless to say I have a major problem with this proposed development if they are using the American definition of "dual diagnosis".  I truly understand that these people need an affordable place to live, but I am questioning the wisdom of housing them in an area that in a few years is going to be full of young families with young children.  I definitely don't want my kids living in area that is openly welcoming people with mental disorders that are known to abuse alcohol or drugs.


Thanks for posting the findings of your research. Suddenly I felt like I’m losing the cozy feeling I had about living in Cornell.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 18th, 2006, 11:04am
Some of these questions would be best answered by the town and MICAH.  MICAH currently operates Cedarcrest Manor (affordable Seniors apartments) and a 26 unit townhouse project on Robinson street.  Micah will also be using outside agencies to help operate the facility.  MICAH would need to answer the questions regarding who would fill the units and what type of support they would receive.  

As with any new development the town will need to have a public meeting so any unanswered questions can be dealt with then.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Glen River on Sep 18th, 2006, 12:22pm
   maybe we should address this to the CRPA.

CRPA, Hello!

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 18th, 2006, 2:52pm
The CRPA is aware of MICAH project.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SW20_MR2 on Sep 18th, 2006, 3:20pm
I have never liked and never will like the idea of affordable housing in affluent mid- and high-income areas.  I hate to sound elitist, but there is a reason why I paid the money I did to live in this type of area.  

One of my concerns when choosing an area was the look of the neighbourhood once construction had completed.  I want to see nice gardens, beautifully-kept house exteriors, etc.  In low-income housing areas, these types of things are an afterthought - and for good reason since they have other things on their mind.  

I'm all for community housing, but they need to put them in the right area.  In this case, they may be affecting our land values.  I hate to say it, but I certainly would not pay the same price for a home that is located right beside the housing project.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by amiyum on Sep 18th, 2006, 4:30pm
Can we do anything as residents to oppose this? Although I do feel a bit bad for saying this as these people deserve to live in a decent home.

There are concerns about the safety of our kids and property investment etc, which every community will have. However Cornell already has the hospital which brings in lots of emergency vehicles, there is a proposed airport close by and now this. Anything else?? It’s too much for Cornell, how about the areas around HWY 48 and Major Mackenzie.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SW20_MR2 on Sep 18th, 2006, 4:49pm
I know that there is some community housing at Woodbine and 16th (north of 16th on the east side, close to all the 3000+ sq ft homes).  If anyone lives or know anyone that lives in the area, I'd be interested in whether or not the community had an impact on the community and/or property values.  

I used to deliver food for our restaurant when I was younger, and I went to the housing project a few times.  It wasn't horrible like Regent Park or anything, but it certainly wasn't nice by my standards or when compared to the nice homes beside.

Steve, please keep us updated on this. :)

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 18th, 2006, 6:00pm
I just want to clarify that this meeting with the town is to reserve water/sewage allocation in case MICAH decides to present a formal proposal.  MICAH will be competing with other proposals across York Region (including potentially other in Markham) for the 370 units that can be built.  If it gets through all the stage and is one of the projects chosen, then MICAH could present a formal proposal by June of next year.  This is when more details will become available and we can provide more input.  I mentioned this now so that we can start discussing some of our concerns and hopefully respect each others position (even ones we don't agree with :) ).

The CRPA board is a cross section of our community so all of the views presented here have been discussed in the past.  AspenRidgeBuyer brought up a good point about some of the recent details of this proposal.  This will now also need to be addressed as well.

My personal opinion is that as long as MICAH and the developer are open to discuss the details of their plans and work with our community then we should be able to work through these issues.  I honestly don't think it is as bad as it seems.  

I lived with my parents in a new community in Newmarket when the Ontario Government decided to build affordable apartments on our street (20 houses down).  There was a lot uproar as a luxury condo was suppose to be built there.  All homes on our street back onto a golf course (including the empty lot).  The rational was that they wanted low-income mixed in with higher income housing.  After more than 10 years I can say that this apartment building has had no impact on my parents property value.  I am also not aware of any problems related to safety, crime, etc.  I did visit a friend's parents who lived in one of the units at that time and I found it to be very quiet.

My concerns relate to how it can integrated into the community and whether they plan on any more units for Cornell.  I think problems can arise if too many units are in one area and/or they don't feel part of the community.  I don't think it will affect property values in Cornell except maybe for a few homes right around the building.  But these homes won't be built until after the apartments are built so they should have different expectations.  I will need to understand more about the type of mental patients they will be accepting as this could become a concern.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 18th, 2006, 10:29pm
I won't be very subtle in my feelings about this MICAH proposal.  I am definitely opposed to it.  I did not buy in this area to be subjected to these types of housing units.  You can count on me to support any community objections.  Let's hope it never makes it to the formal proposal stage and a more powerful group proposes something more acceptable.  NIMBY!!

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by ahmike on Sep 18th, 2006, 11:07pm
It was my understanding that there is a development freeze in this area for at least 4 years due to lack of sewage.  I believe this is why Ballantry and Mattamy will not be releasing their next phases until then.  

Steve, do you know why this affordable housing project is exempt from this freeze?

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 19th, 2006, 11:30am
Yes, you are correct that there is a lack of sewage allocation for new developments.  But a few months ago the town was presented a report from the planning department where they rejigged some of the numbers to squeeze more sewage allocation out of our infrastucture.  This allowed them to free up an additional 2400 units of sewage allocation for all of Markham.  In the following link you can see that 450 was allocation to Cornell with 150 for high density.

http://www.markham.ca/markham/ccbs/indexfile/Agendas/2006/Development%20Services-Economic%20Development/June%2020/Servicing%20Allocation.htm

My guess is that H&R will try to grab the 150 high density units by presenting a draft plan next year.  Micah  would need 100 unit which would leave 200 units still up for grab.  Here is the criteria the town would use in determining what plans get approved.



Criteria used for distribution of current assignment

Staff have again reviewed the guidelines for prioritizing allocation adopted by Council on December 10, 2002 and have utilized them as a basis for determining recommended servicing allocation.  The guidelines were based on the following criteria:

   * Completion of key transportation infrastructure (e.g. Markham By-pass, Box Grove By-pass, Victoria Square By-pass, major collector roads, etc.);
   * Implementation of Markham Centre;
   * Infill development and redevelopment along key transit corridors;
   * Affordable housing projects;
   * Provision of development with public benefits (e.g. community facilities and public infrastructure); and
   * Provision of development that supports the Town’s smart growth and new urbanism initiatives, and that demonstrates exceptional urban design.



In addition Council endorsed additional considerations in the February 2005 report which included:

   * Existing and future commitments for delivery of infrastructure;
   * Completion of development blocks (filling in the holes) and giving communities a “finished” look;
   * Ability to utilize allocation in a reasonable timeframe; and
   * Infill development ready to proceed.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by mbds on Sep 20th, 2006, 11:09am
My concern, other that what I mentioned above, would be along the lines of Steveh's....namely the number of units for this project. Far better to have many pockets of a small # of units dispersed through all of Markham that a large # of units all in one place.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Irishman on Sep 20th, 2006, 1:31pm
Hi all,

Just finished reading up on some of this and I also have to apose this.  

I was born and raised in this type of environment. Some of you probably know of it.  Regant Park.
Big time ghetto and crime haven.  I am so happy the city has decided to tear it down.  

I just finished buying a place on Walkerville Rd.
I really don't want to be subjected to this type of area again.  Nothing good will come out of this.   That's a fact!  

Irishman


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Irishman on Sep 20th, 2006, 1:39pm
Sorry but I have to mention this:

The only good thing about growing up in this type of area is that it makes a person more aware of his/her surroundings(street wise).

I do believe there are some good people in those area's.   But I still have to appose it because the the fact of the matter is....the bad outway the good, from my perspective.


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 20th, 2006, 6:04pm
Cornell is absolutely a beautful community.  Let's not let this project get off the ground to possibly ruin what we have.  Remember this is an election year for the municipalities so we can let our local politicians know that we oppose this project and start a petition early.  Who knows what kind of persons the government will allow to be housed in these units.  They could even be convicted child molesters like the Parkdale community in Toronto experienced a few years ago.  Do we even want the slightest possibility of this happening?   Let's not let this slip through the cracks and come to fruition.  CRPA stay on top of this and let us know what is happening.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by cornellbachelor on Sep 24th, 2006, 4:52pm

on 09/18/06 at 15:20:13, SW20_MR2 wrote:
I have never liked and never will like the idea of affordable housing in affluent mid- and high-income areas.  I hate to sound elitist, but there is a reason why I paid the money I did to live in this type of area.  


SW20_MR2 = NIMBY (not in my backyard)

Hate to burst your bubble but where do you think we live?  Rosedale?  At best Cornell is a mid income area.  Compared to the better parts of Toronto, Cornell is "affordable housing".  Large houses are dirt cheap here.  It's all relative.    

I don't want to live beside mental patients but I don't mind having lower income neighbours.  Cornell has large houses, townhouses, semis, coach houses and condos all near each other.  The diversity in Cornell enriches our social fabric.  Regent Park, St. Jamestown, Jane & Finch, Kingston Rd = mistakes of past urban planning policies.  Perhaps a gated community best suits you.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 24th, 2006, 5:37pm
Cornellbachelor,

Everyone is allowed to give their opinion on this project but just because someone else does not have the same opinion does not mean they are not welcome in Cornell.

Let's keep this discussion from getting personal.

Thanks
Steve

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by RainSoul on Sep 24th, 2006, 7:36pm
I am for the housing under certain things being in place.  Cornell is a family area.  I think if these homes are being given to people with children who are needing to get back on their feet, that is something I am OK with.  I think it's different if they might put people with drug problems, or sexual preditors in the homes.  I would hope that the town of Markham would take the area into account for who would be well received by their neighbors and who would not.  I don't want to create any environment which is not open to any person regardless of race, class, etc.  However obviously this area atracts certain types of families and I hope that would not change.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SW20_MR2 on Sep 24th, 2006, 8:58pm
Yep, you're darn right I don't want it in my backyard, and judging by the responses in this thread, many others don't as well.

Never did I suggest that we live in an area like Rosedale, but I'd consider Markham as a whole (except for a few pockets) to be mid- to upper-class.  The average house price in Cornell is at least $350-400k.  There aren't many low-income people who can afford houses in the area.

I already mentioned the reasons I bought in this area, and at the time of purchase, and most of my requirements were met.  Having subsidized housing was certainly not one of them.


on 09/24/06 at 16:52:58, cornellbachelor wrote:
SW20_MR2 = NIMBY (not in my backyard)

Hate to burst your bubble but where do you think we live?  Rosedale?  At best Cornell is a mid income area.  Compared to the better parts of Toronto, Cornell is "affordable housing".  Large houses are dirt cheap here.  It's all relative.    


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 25th, 2006, 12:09am

on 09/24/06 at 16:52:58, cornellbachelor wrote:
SW20_MR2 = NIMBY (not in my backyard)

Cornell has large houses, townhouses, semis, coach houses and condos all near each other.  The diversity in Cornell enriches our social fabric.  

Well Cornellbachelor as you said above, we've got all the diversity already, so we don't need this government controlled low rental units in the mix.  I certainly don't want some bureaucrat deciding who gets to live in these subsidized housing units in our community.  Even if they tell us that  no objectionalble people will be housed in these units, who's to  say that they will stick to their word.  Once the units are there mistakes can be made as we know they have in the past.  I certainly don't  want to gamble with our communities safety with possible convicted felons residing in these units.  Maybe when you have young children of your own to be worried about you'll feel differently about this situation.  And yes, as I said in a previous post definitely not in my backyard!

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Thomelle on Sep 25th, 2006, 1:23am
SteveH,

I am suprised that you see cornellbachelor's comments as a barb or personal attack.  I think that his comments add a refreshing view on the issue of affordable housing.  His comments are founded in both research and reality.  
I think we do ourselves an injustice when we don't allow all views to be heard and given some contemplation.  

If I were an outsider looking in on this board, maybe even someone from a lower income and socioeconomic background, looking at the comments that were posted  could come across as elitist as no other views are mentioned and one could assume that an entire community is clearly against the integration of mixed-incomes into the community.  Personally, I can say that this not the case and I would like to thank cornellbachelor for brooching a new viewpoint.  

Mixed-income and affordable housing is different from "government" or for lack of an available comparison "the Toronto MTHC housing" that we are all so familiar with.  And cornellbachelor is right, we have seen the mistakes that this has caused and a general feeling that some parts of Toronto are not places that we want to be - this is unfortunate as it further isolates the community.
 
Cornell is standing on a platform of New Urbanism - a new start to the ways communities and housing is created in our society.  Mixed-income and affordable housing interspersed in our community echos this sentiment in terms of our desire to be more progressive in the way we do our urban planning.  I hope that as community meetings are held to review the plans, we will have an opportunity for many more viewpoints and opinions.

Cheers,
Thomelle


on 09/24/06 at 17:37:05, SteveH wrote:
Cornellbachelor,

Everyone is allowed to give their opinion on this project but just because someone else does not have the same opinion does not mean they are not welcome in Cornell.

Let's keep this discussion from getting personal.

Thanks
Steve


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 25th, 2006, 4:00am
CRPA would you please respond to this thread with any information that you have about this MICAH proposal.  I would also like to know if the CRPA have any plans to register opposition on behalf of the Cornell community.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 25th, 2006, 9:05am
Thomelle,

I agree with you completely.  Cornell needs to invite all types of people, but I have also seen some poor implementations from the government in the past.  So I do have a number of questions on it's implementation.

My main concern with Cornellbachelors post was not his general opinion but his last sentence which unfortunately would not help in having an open discussion on this topic.  I hope Cornellbachelor continues to post on this topic as everyone's opinion counts.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 25th, 2006, 9:52am

on 09/25/06 at 00:09:04, Genie wrote:
Well Cornellbachelor as you said above, we've got all the diversity already, so we don't need this government controlled low rental units in the mix.  I certainly don't want some bureaucrat deciding who gets to live in these subsidized housing units in our community.  Even if they tell us that  no objectionalble people will be housed in these units, who's to  say that they will stick to their word.  Once the units are there mistakes can be made as we know they have in the past.  I certainly don't  want to gamble with our communities safety with possible convicted felons residing in these units.  Maybe when you have young children of your own to be worried about you'll feel differently about this situation.  And yes, as I said in a previous post definitely not in my backyard!


Genie,

I think we are far from being a diverse community although I do believe the planning for Cornell will encourage us to become more diverse.  Due to the law of averages we already have former convicts in Cornell.  I would suspect that the rest of Cornell (eventually 16,000 homes) will have far more people convicted of all types of crimes than in the 120 units proposed.  Most of these people are just trying to make it to the next month and hoping for a better future.  They are trying to avoid criminal activities.

I have 3 small kids of my own and we have always instilled the concept that there are many less fortunate people than us.  An affordable housing project does not automatically mean we will have a safety issue.  I know of many communities with detached homes that have had a lot of problems with marijuana growing and other illegal activities.  Cornell can also fall in this trap if we don't get to know our neighbours.  It is the integration and socializing of our community that will have the biggest impact on safety, not the segregation of people in need.

We moved to Cornell not because of the pretty homes, although we do like ours.  We chose cornell due to the New Urbanism concept which includes people of mixed income.  The concept of Cornell simply will not work unless we have renters and people of lower income (Gov. subsidized or not) integrated into our neighbourhood.  For various reasons it has been shown that people who rent and those who have a lower income are higher user of transit and use the services of local businesses more often.  Cornell needs to be a mixed integrated community to succeed otherwise we will become just another housing project in the burbs.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 25th, 2006, 10:09am

on 09/25/06 at 04:00:00, Genie wrote:
CRPA would you please respond to this thread with any information that you have about this MICAH proposal.  I would also like to know if the CRPA have any plans to register opposition on behalf of the Cornell community.



Genie,

We will not know until next spring if MICAH will get funding.  MICAH will not present an offical plan (which we can respond to) until then.

I also want to clarify that this proposal has been known since January of 2004 when it was mentioned at the CRPA's AGM.  Here was our general stance at that time which I don't believe has changed since.

http://www.mycornell.ca/news/downloads/May04CRPA.pdf#search=%22affordable%20site%3Amycornell.ca%22


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 25th, 2006, 12:13pm
York Region has a resource manual that explains the supports and services in York Region for persons with Dual diagnosis.

http://www.yssn.ca/images/clientupload/DDManual.pdf#search=%22york%20dual%20diagnosis%22

If you go to page 4/5 of this document you can read an overview of York Region's definition.  Here is a synopsis.

"The term dual diagnosis refers to an individual who has an intellectual disability and mental health needs....They experience the same range of severe and prolonged mental health difficulties including depression, mood disorder and schizophrenia as the general population, but at much higher rates."

If anyone is concerned about what dual diagnosis is then I would encourage you to read the 4th and 5th pages of the document.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 25th, 2006, 4:20pm
First of all, thanks Steve for the information regarding the initial  reaction of the CRPA that was in the May 2004 CRPA newsletter.  It shed some more light on the subject.  I was not aware that this proposal went back to 2004 and only became aware because of your recent post on this forum.

I disagree with some of your points made in regards to my post as follows:

"Most of these people are just trying to make it to the next month and hoping for a better future.  They are trying to avoid criminal activities"

How can you state that they are trying to avoid criminal activities when you don't know who will be renting these units?  A large percentage could be desperate trying to make it to the next month and could be very well involved in criminial activities.

"I know of many communities with detached homes that have had a lot of problems with marijuana growing and other illegal activities"

These are usually houses that are rented or leased for the sole purpose of the criminal activity.  Very seldom are the perps the actual home owners.

"The concept of Cornell simply will not work unless we have renters and people of lower income (Gov. subsidized or not) integrated into our neighbourhood"

We have plenty of renters in Cornell already.  Almost all of the coach houses are occupied by renters.  Some of the rent charged for these coach house apartments with all utilities included could certainly be deemed as affordable housing.  Many town homes have renters and some semis and detached houses also.

I still feel we do not need this MICAH proposal in Cornell and I will be following the development closely.  I feel somewhat better knowing that at least the CRPA is also watching it.  Lets hope to make it easier for us that they don't get the required funding and it just goes away.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by amiyum on Sep 25th, 2006, 9:02pm

on 09/25/06 at 10:09:19, SteveH wrote:
Genie,

We will not know until next spring if MICAH will get funding.  MICAH will not present an offical plan (which we can respond to) until then.

I also want to clarify that this proposal has been known since January of 2004 when it was mentioned at the CRPA's AGM.  Here was our general stance at that time which I don't believe has changed since.

http://www.mycornell.ca/news/downloads/May04CRPA.pdf#search=%22affordable%20site%3Amycornell.ca%22


In regards to the CRPA original stance on the MICAH proposal, and other Cornell issues, how does the CRPA decides on the position they would take regarding an issue?

Do the board members make the decision regarding the stance the CRPA will take for Cornell?
Is it based on a vote by the CRPA members?
If neither of the above; how are the concerns and true position of the residents represented.

I do understand the CRPA board members are volunteers; however I am just curious to know how these decisions are made.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 26th, 2006, 4:35pm

on 09/25/06 at 16:20:18, Genie wrote:
How can you state that they are trying to avoid criminal activities when you don't know who will be renting these units?  A large percentage could be desperate trying to make it to the next month and could be very well involved in criminial activities.


All I am trying to say is that neither of us know who will be moving into these units and conversly we can't conclude that they will be bad for our neighbourhood.  


on 09/25/06 at 16:20:18, Genie wrote:
These are usually houses that are rented or leased for the sole purpose of the criminal activity.  Very seldom are the perps the actual home owners.


But should we not allow rental homes or coach houses in our neighbourhood since rentals are more succeptible to criminal activity?  Where do we stop?  In the past the burbs have been scared of any type of rentals.  Slowly this is starting to change.  Affordable housing is just a lower cost rental.


on 09/25/06 at 16:20:18, Genie wrote:
We have plenty of renters in Cornell already.  Almost all of the coach houses are occupied by renters.  Some of the rent charged for these coach house apartments with all utilities included could certainly be deemed as affordable housing.  Many town homes have renters and some semis and detached houses also.


I guess our definitions of mixed housing are much different.  I would suspect more than 90% of the homes in Cornell (including coach houses) are owned by the occupant.  I still think we have a ways to go to become a truely mixed neighbourhood.

I will be interesting to see how this develops.  I don't expect to hear much more about this until next spring.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 26th, 2006, 4:41pm

on 09/25/06 at 21:02:30, amiyum wrote:
In regards to the CRPA original stance on the MICAH proposal, and other Cornell issues, how does the CRPA decides on the position they would take regarding an issue?

Do the board members make the decision regarding the stance the CRPA will take for Cornell?
Is it based on a vote by the CRPA members?
If neither of the above; how are the concerns and true position of the residents represented.

I do understand the CRPA board members are volunteers; however I am just curious to know how these decisions are made.


As with any issue the board as a whole, with input from the community, decides what position the CRPA should take.


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by mbds on Sep 27th, 2006, 2:17pm
I must admit that I'm a little taken aback at some of the outright contempt toward this proposal shown by some of the posters. Should we be concerned? Absolutely, but our concerns should be along the lines of those voiced by the CRPA. Namely, if approved, that this development adhere to the principles of New Urbanism and that, while we don't mind doing our fair share with respect to afforable housing, Cornell should not be a dumping ground for affordable housing while other communities get off the hook. The fact that this is a church-based outfit that applies for government funding, rather than a government-run social housing project should alleviate some concerns. I think if you take a look at MICAH's Robinson St. project, you'd be hard-pressed to tell it's so-called low income housing. Also, with Kylemore involved, I don't think they'd risk not being able to sell the rest of their 20 acre development by doing a sub-standard job for Micah. If this project goes ahead, as long as our concerns are addressed, these people/families should be welcomed into our community and encouraged to take part in all the activities that make Cornell such a great place to reside.
BTW, regarding rentals......most of the coach houses etc. I've seen for rent go for almost as much as our mortgage payments on a 1700 sq.ft. detached house....not exactly low-income rentals.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Cinderella on Sep 27th, 2006, 3:07pm
There appears to be a number of different concerns with this new project coming on board.  One is whether the architecture of Cornell is maintained but that was pretty much changed with the Beaverbrook semis fronting onto 9th line, with garages attched.  So much for architecture.  A second concern is the mixing of "low" or "affordable" housing in Cornell.  Define "affordable".  Personally, I have worked my butt off to be able to buy a home in a nice neighbourhood and if I am labelled an elitist because I want to maintain this standard of living, then so be it.  I have worked for it, I have earned it.  If people have a problem with that attitude, then may I suggest affordable boating for all?  After all, why should some people be able to afford yachts when I can't?  The third, and I feel most serious concern with the new project, is the mix of owners that will be afforded the units.  This is a neighbourhood that was marketed and sold as being safe and a great place to raise children.  Darn right I have concerns about unpredictable people with possible psychological problems.  Wouldn't any parent?  If having a mix in neighbourhoods is the right thing to do, then all neighbourhoods should have a percentage of affordable housing.  Funny how I can't recall where it is on the Bridlepath, Rosedale or Forest Hill.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by CornellBeauty on Sep 27th, 2006, 3:29pm
    Why did they built Cornell first as a model community?  Why did they just not built affordable housing first instead of Cornell.  It feels like Cornell is no longer a model community, with all the changes, neglect (it seems), with all the planned
ameniites built somewhere else.
   Maybe they just built the airport first, then affordable housing and forget about Cornell.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 27th, 2006, 4:23pm
I think we need to keep this in perspective.  We are talking about 120 units out of 16,000 homes planned for Cornell.  Of this 20 units will be designated for people with mental disease, 12 designated for victims of domestic abuse, 6 designated for people with physical disabilities and the remaining people will come from MICAH's wait list.  Families make up the largest group on MICAH's list which why 3/4 of the remaining units have 2-4 bedrooms.  Most of these units will be rented at 80% of the going rate.  I agree with mbds that we should welcome these people if/when they arrive.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 27th, 2006, 4:46pm
Good post Cinderella, not just because we are in agreement on our position regarding this proposal, but you make an excellent point on having worked so hard to get here.  I just don't get it with the few supporters of this proposal, what is so great about having a bunch of low income people in our neighbourhood?  Especially ones with mental problems. What makes them so desireable over successful mid or high income earners?  As SteveH stated the unfortunate low income people are just trying to make it to the next month.  Doesn't this usually cause desperation?  What are the results of desperation?  Resentment of the successful neighbours and their children?  Again, I disagree with SteveH stating that 90% of coach houses are owned by the occupants. Definitely not, that high percentage are renters occupying the coach houses and not the owners of the property. Lets inform our local politicians running for municipal election in November that we oppose this proposal before the formalities begin next spring. Either call them or send them an email.  You can find their numbers and email addresses here
http://www.markham.ca/markham/channels/contactus/contactus.htm#Departments

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 27th, 2006, 5:29pm
I am finding that this thread is just turning into a discussion for/against affordable housing in general instead of recognizing the need for affordable housing and trying to determine how it could work in our neighbourhood based on the proposal from MICAH.

I do understand where some of you are coming from as I grew up in a family that really pushed work ethic and if someone was asking for help then they were deemed lazy and providing any type of handout would only encourage them to continue asking for more.  And if the government was going to do this then they should do it as far away from our house as possible because this would invite more crime into my neighbourhood, lower house prices, etc.

Unfortunately the government listened to my parent's generation and we ended up with the very large low-income housing projects that invited the type of crime and property value decreases that worry many people.  I think there is a better way to help these people and it has been shown to work in the past.  I have seen it work near my parent's place in Newmarket and I think it can work here in Cornell as well, if done right.  Segregating or ignoring people in need will only make the problem worse and then you end up with the well-off in gated communities and others in run down housing in "poor" neighbourhoods.  This is the exact opposite of what New Urbanism encourages.  

This will be my last comments on why I think we should be supporting affordable housing in our neighbourhoods.  I didn't want this thread to focus on whether affordable housing is needed in communities.  I would like this thread to get back to the details of MICAH's proposal and what works or doesn't work for our community.


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by villagemaker2000 on Sep 28th, 2006, 8:20am
   I have no problem with affordable housing as long as the number alloted for mentally sick are less
than abused women, etc.  But it seems like the mentally sick are given more allocations.  It is scary.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 28th, 2006, 9:36am
I would like to better understand the types of mental diseases of people that could be placed in this facility.  Participation House (near the hospital) was built in 1973 and supports people with various levels of mental disease and I have not heard of any problems from this group in our community.  I believe they have 48 units and I have seem many of them walk through our neighbourhood.

In the York Region manual for Dual Diagnosis, that I provided in a previous post, it mentions that studies have shown that about 0.3% of the population have a dual diagnosis mental illness.  Most of these people are apparently not properly diagnosed and are struggling to coexist in all of our neighbourhoods.  In the case of Cornell's proposed population of 42,000 residents this would translate to about 120 residents.  Setting aside 20 units for the worse of these cases and providing the proper support systems all near an expanding hospital should be a positive for our community.  Maybe Micah's selection process for these 20 units could give preferential treatment to Cornell Residents.

Maybe more units need to support abused women.    Or maybe the units for abused women are more short-term vs the mental units so that the actual number of abused women supported is greater than it seems.  I am certainly not an expert in this field.  Maybe it would be a good idea if MICAH and whoever else is involved provide a presentation showing their selection process and how they decided to split up the units into the different groups.



Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by amiyum on Sep 28th, 2006, 1:32pm

on 09/27/06 at 15:29:50, CornellBeauty wrote:
    Why did they built Cornell first as a model community?  Why did they just not built affordable housing first instead of Cornell.  It feels like Cornell is no longer a model community, with all the changes, neglect (it seems), with all the planned
ameniites built somewhere else.
   Maybe they just built the airport first, then affordable housing and forget about Cornell.


Interesting …..

I also wondered what the home sales would be like if all the major infrastructure were in place first or if they were on the builders map showing the proposed plans for the community – Such as widened of  the  roads, proposed airport, housing with 20 mental illness individuals, gas stations and other proposed buildings.

There is a definite need for some of the infrastructure, but how many people would buy a new home in front of a gas station, under an aircraft path, beside a home with multiple individuals having mental illness etc?  

I am NOT against affordable housing, but concern about the people living there, and how well the property will be managed and maintained.

There are people with mental illness scattered all around, however a concentration in a specific area is something else.

A building where almost 17% of it’s occupants having mental illness is substantial to me

A reduction to 5 - 10 units would be much more tolerable. Depending on the degree of mental illness, my preference would be to have none.


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by td2005 on Sep 28th, 2006, 1:45pm
I would have second thoughts if I knew about these proposals especially the MICAH Affordable Housing.

I wonder if the residents of Grand Cornell knew this since it's close to their area.

How and where can we voice our concerns about this?





Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 28th, 2006, 1:52pm
You can voice concerns to the CRPA or your councillor.  But until they get funding from York Region I don't think we'll hear more about it until then.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by amiyum on Sep 28th, 2006, 2:43pm

on 09/27/06 at 16:46:03, Genie wrote:
Good post Cinderella, not just because we are in agreement on our position regarding this proposal, but you make an excellent point on having worked so hard to get here.  I just don't get it with the few supporters of this proposal, what is so great about having a bunch of low income people in our neighbourhood?  Especially ones with mental problems. What makes them so desireable over successful mid or high income earners?  As SteveH stated the unfortunate low income people are just trying to make it to the next month.  Doesn't this usually cause desperation?  What are the results of desperation?  Resentment of the successful neighbours and their children?  Again, I disagree with SteveH stating that 90% of coach houses are owned by the occupants. Definitely not, that high percentage are renters occupying the coach houses and not the owners of the property. Lets inform our local politicians running for municipal election in November that we oppose this proposal before the formalities begin next spring. Either call them or send them an email.  You can find their numbers and email addresses here
http://www.markham.ca/markham/channels/contactus/contactus.htm#Departments


There are some decent hard working people living in affordable housing. Drastic unfortunate situations can occur in a person’s life which would require them to live in affordable housing. Look at the families of Katrina.  I would also guess that a number of homeowners living in Cornell would not able to afford their current homes if suddenly there was a single source of income.

I know Coop Housing have breakdowns for full rent and subsidize units. People paying full are usually not qualified for subsidy based on their income. Some have combine incomes up to and over $90 thousand range. They moved in when they needed help, later they are more stable and stayed around for a while until they pay off their student loans, etc.

It’s unfortunate that a number of the TO affordable housing are not well managed and maintained. It’s also unfortunate to see someone trying to bring up their family in some of those deplorable conditions among people with mental illness and serious criminal record

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by magster12232003 on Sep 28th, 2006, 3:19pm
Having served on the board of a women's shelter before, I want to point out that the issue of shelter for women is not the women themselves, it is the crazy spouses that try to get them back that's the issue.  The shelter that I was affilicated with had to have security camera's, bullet proof windows, high wooden fence around the playground for the kids, strict curfew rules, etc. to protect the women and their children.  And, there was one incident where one woman was stealing from the shelter and dumping what she stole in the garbage so that her spouse could come and pick them up later from the garbace outside.  And, of course, the shelter had no visible signs on the outside that it was a shelter, it looked like a regular low cost housing complex.  I'm not sure what I am trying to add to the discussion other than that it is usually not the residents themselves that are the issue, it's the affiliations that come into the area that cause the problems.  i.e. everytime there's an issue at the Jane and Finch area, the newspapers interview neighbours and parents who are decent hardworking people.  But, the one kid who makes a mistake and befriends a bunch of gangsters brings trouble into the neighbourhood for everyone else.

Having gone through some work to find out more about parking permits within cornell, hopefully any restrictions that Cornell residents face are also implemented in this development to limit the number of cars parked on the streets/grass/driveway/etc.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 28th, 2006, 4:23pm

on 09/18/06 at 16:30:58, amiyum wrote:
Can we do anything as residents to oppose this? Although I do feel a bit bad for saying this as these people deserve to live in a decent home.

There are concerns about the safety of our kids and property investment etc, which every community will have. However Cornell already has the hospital which brings in lots of emergency vehicles, there is a proposed airport close by and now this. Anything else?? It’s too much for Cornell, how about the areas around HWY 48 and Major Mackenzie.

Hi amiyum, I am a little confused on your position on this MICAH proposal.  Your post above is clearly in opposition and then your most recent post you appear to be supporting it.  I know there are decent people with high moral values residing in affordable/subsidized housing.  I have some very good life long friends who came out of Regent Park and they certainly are decent people.  I visited with them many times in Regent Park and I can say without a doubt that they are of a small percentage of the families that reside in these housing complexes.  I also have nothing against a familly who has fallen on hard times and need some assistance and I also have a huge soft spot for abused women and their children.  I am just against condensing all of the despair in a single location.  Consider all of these problem families and add the mental instability of the other unit occupants and you have a much higher percentage of the well intentioned plans of MICAH going astray.  I just don't want to take the chance on this MICAH proposal ruining our lovely community.  It only takes one bad incident  to start the downfall.  I know it could happen anywhere in Cornell, but going with the percentages, it has a much higher chance of happening out of the MICAH proposed site.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 28th, 2006, 5:04pm

on 09/28/06 at 16:23:35, Genie wrote:
I know it could happen anywhere in Cornell, but going with the percentages, it has a much higher chance of happening out of the MICAH proposed site.


But when comparing 120 vs 16,000 for Cornell you will see much more crime in Cornell outside of this proposal no matter what percentages are used.  But unfortunately anything that takes place near this facility will be under a microscope while elsewhere in Cornell it will discussed as a one-off.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by amiyum on Sep 28th, 2006, 11:57pm

on 09/28/06 at 16:23:35, Genie wrote:
Hi amiyum, I am a little confused on your position on this MICAH proposal.  Your post above is clearly in opposition and then your most recent post you appear to be supporting it.  I know there are decent people with high moral values residing in affordable/subsidized housing.  I have some very good life long friends who came out of Regent Park and they certainly are decent people.  I visited with them many times in Regent Park and I can say without a doubt that they are of a small percentage of the families that reside in these housing complexes.  I also have nothing against a familly who has fallen on hard times and need some assistance and I also have a huge soft spot for abused women and their children.  I am just against condensing all of the despair in a single location.  Consider all of these problem families and add the mental instability of the other unit occupants and you have a much higher percentage of the well intentioned plans of MICAH going astray.  I just don't want to take the chance on this MICAH proposal ruining our lovely community.  It only takes one bad incident  to start the downfall.  I know it could happen anywhere in Cornell, but going with the percentages, it has a much higher chance of happening out of the MICAH proposed site.


Hi Genie, your response in regards to my stance on the MICAH proposal was expected and I do understand why it might be confusing.

While I respect the opinion of all, the response at 2:44pm was my opinion on the below comment:
“what is so great about having a bunch of low income people in our neighbourhood?
What makes them so desirable over successful mid or high income earners?”
Low income people – who are the individuals in this category? Are they students, people with disabilities, single parents, decent hard working individuals working jobs that are not paying enough for what they do? A number of these are honest folks working diligently towards their goals and that’s why I am not against subsidized housing.  This was my defense for some of the people who do live in those homes.

Since those individuals will only be a fraction of the occupants, I am definitely against the MICAH proposal in Cornell.

Other reasons includes ….
1. A housing with up to 20 people with mental illness and an airport was not a part of the New Urbanism selling feature of Cornell. This is not what I had in mind for my kid, myself or my investment. While I have a small starter home, I would love to get a decent ROI when I reach 40 or 50 to buy something else.

2. The management and maintenance on Non Profit Housing are often undesirable.

3. In general renters often do not show the same pride and respect for the property. While this is true for most rental homes, it’s often worst when the place is subsidized.

4. The proposal for the airport is still in the air.

5. As Markham develops, the hospital will get busier and so will the number of sirens.

6. The abuse of subsidize housing angers me – some people are in need while others take it for a ride.


Take all these things into consideration; if all the  proposals get approved, how will Cornell stack up  to other areas in Markham. There are lots of development going on around Boxgrove, East of Major Mackenzie and 9th line; the development can be balanced around Markham communities

If we can’t stop the units from being built, then we can try to push back on a reduction in the number of units for people with mental illness.

FYI - I will be voicing my concerns to the CRPA and our councilor

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 29th, 2006, 8:29am

on 09/28/06 at 23:58:21, The_MoFo wrote:

Just take away the words "mental illness" or "dual diagnosis" and insert the racial minority of your choice.  Now, realize that you are all just as bad as the very racists you complained about at the splash pad and playground... except infinitely worse.

I'm not a religious fellow, but some of you people certainly are the devil personified.  What would your Imam/Priest/Rabbi/Pastor say to some of these anonymous confessions??  

Obviously you are confused.  There is absolutely no comparison of being a racist to being concerned for the safety of our famillies and community.  It is far better to error on the side of safety then to be sorry later.
My initial response to your post surely would have gotten this thread closed.


on 09/28/06 at 23:58:21, The_MoFo wrote:
SteveH, I respect you immensely for (a) being so diplomatic, and (b) for letting the free speech continue when the heat gets turned up a bit.  So much better than the lousy Elvis days.  But, being a Mofo, I have no such restraint.  I hope you don't delete this...  Aggressive and inflammatory?  Yes.  Worthy?  I hope so.

Bleeding Heart?  Definitely.

SteveH, you came down on Cornellbachelor for comments far milder than the MoFo wrote, so I am anxious to read your response

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 29th, 2006, 9:44am
Well, I won't comment any further on my personal opinions as I feel everything has already been said and we are just going around in circles.  If (still an if) this proposal does get approved, I am hopeful that we can get over our differences and welcome these people into our community.  I would encourage everyone to read all the comments here and do your own research before coming to a conclusion.

As the moderator for this site I am concerned that attacks on individual posters as well as the inappropriate profiling of certain groups has escalated to the point of not return.  So I have decided to close this thread.  Please do not start this topic again.

Thanks
Steve

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 30th, 2006, 12:25am
After careful consideration I have decided to reopen this thread.

Please remember that we are all in the same community and constant attacks are not helpful.  I also ask you to remember that there are likely many residents of Cornell who have or had the same diseases that this project is proposed to support.  

Please choose your words carefully as this is obviously a very emotional topic.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Sep 30th, 2006, 4:35am
Thanks Steve for reconsidering and re-opening this topic.  I think that it is important to be able to read everyone's point of view on this subject, even the ones written in anger and way out of line.   Maybe it will even soften the stance of the opposition.

I do have one question for you and that is the number of 16,000 that you have referenced, what does it consist of?  Are these total numbers of homes or units?  What are the boundaries involved and what is the time frame?

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 30th, 2006, 3:50pm
The 16,000 is the total number of homes that are proposed for Cornell.  This includes detached, semis, towns, coachhouses, condo units, apartment units.  This covers the area from the new bypass in the East and North to 9th line in the West and 407 to the south.  This information comes from the draft Cornell Secondary Plan that was presented in March of this year.

http://www.cornellvillage.ca/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=urban;action=display;num=1118441208

The plan from then estimated 38,000 resident in 14,500 units as well as 11,000-13000 jobs.  At the public meeting in June the Town said that after further reviewing what is planned they would update the draft plan this fall to show 42,000 resident in 16,000 units.  This will happen over a 20 year period.  By next year Cornell will have about 3000 homes and 8000 residents.  The MICAH project would be in full operation around 2010 if approved.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 30th, 2006, 4:09pm
I just want to expand a bit further on the selection process for affordable housing projects.  York Region was given funding from the Ontario government for 370 units in total.  Of this 100 units must be designated for people with mental diseases.  I don't know if this requirement came from York Region or the Ontario Government but it looks like MICAH's proposal was alligned with these requirements in mind.

Also, if MICAH does not get selected by York Region they will probably wait until the next round of funding becomes available.  The United Church Council owns these lands and they are usually willing the wait as long as it takes.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Sep 30th, 2006, 5:00pm
Here is a presentation made by the town that gives us an idea on the Town of Markham's position for affordable housing.  

http://www.markham.ca/markham/ccbs/indexfile/Agendas/2006/Development%20Services-Economic%20Development/September%2019/Servicing%20Allocation%20for%20Affordable%20Housing_files/frame.htm

Here is one quote from this presentation.

"Request Staff to fast-track a review of opportunities, and determine options available and financial incentives and impacts, to ensure Markham receives a share of the 300 affordable housing unit allocation under York Region."

Page 11 from the presentation gives you an idea of the process.


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Oct 1st, 2006, 4:01am

on 09/30/06 at 15:50:41, SteveH wrote:
The 16,000 is the total number of homes that are proposed for Cornell.  This includes detached, semis, towns, coachhouses, condo units, apartment units.  This covers the area from the new bypass in the East and North to 9th line in the West and 407 to the south.  This information comes from the draft Cornell Secondary Plan that was presented in March of this year.

Thanks for the info Steve, however you missed listing the northern border and I could not find it in the link you provided.

I also noticed in the Town of  Markhams report that part of York Regions criteria for approval of the affordable housing project is "community support"

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Oct 1st, 2006, 11:41am
The bypass is the border to the north as well.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by amiyum on Oct 2nd, 2006, 2:15pm
FYI - there are a few kinds of affordable homes http://www.optionsforhomes.ca/news.php

I think this is a great option

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Oct 2nd, 2006, 8:19pm
Hello everyone:

Thought I should post the prompt reply I received from our ward 5 councillor, John Webster.  I sent an email to him yesterday to register my opposition to the MICAH proposal and received the following response from him today.  Very impressive!   I also complained about the delay in the widening of Ninth Line.

Here is John Webster's response

I too have concerns about the quality of the lifestyle in Cornell, as well as the rest of Ward 5.  The future phases of the development need to be done in tandem with the current residents.  That is why I have set up and chair a committee called the Cornell Centre Advisory Committee, which is made up of members of the community, the Town Planning Staff, the hospital planners and the development community.  Together we will be able to make certain that all aspects fit together.

To date, there is no specific MICAH proposal that has been presented to the Town.  MICAH is still in the development and planning stage.  They did send a proposal to the Regional Government for funding, and the funding has not yet been approved.  If it is approved, the MICAH plan will then have to go through all the process that is required for such a project.  It is at that time that I will be calling a public meeting to be able to discuss what they will be able to build and what services they will be able to provide.

What the Council did approve is that here well be 120 Units of Water and Sewer Allocation set aside for affordable housing in the Town of Markham, but that is not specific to MICAH.  That allocation is for the entire Town and all the projects that may come forth.

I will forward your concerns to the committee and keep you informed of the progress.

The intersection of 9th Line and Highway 7 is a disappointment.  I have been working for 3 years to get the reconstruction of the 9th Line moved forward, and that has finally happened.  The preliminary work is being done now, and should be completed as you say by next year.  Suddenly in the summer, the Province of Ontario would not release the permits to do the intersection.  They have changed the specifications.  I was most angry at this last minute decision by the Province, and we are working with the Province to rectify the problem.  It is the Province that is also holding up the completion of Bur Oak and Highway 7.

One concession I did get was the creation of a right turn lane at Highway 7, which has just been opened and will help.  I also got the piece of un-assumed road at the south end of Bur Oak opened to Church Street to stop the traffic meandering through Riverlands, and I had them pave Riverlands to the current By-Pass to allow another exit from Cornell.

By the end of this week, or possibly next week at the latest, the permanent By-Pass will be open, and from your street, you will find it faster to go east on 16th, South on the By-Pass and east on Highway 7.

9th Line will be completed to Rose Way Ave. by next year, and if I am elected again, I will continue the push to the Province to let us complete the intersection at the same time.

I will keep you informed of the progress.

Thank you for your support.

John Webster
Councillor Ward 5

The Town of Markham
101 Town Centre Blvd.
Markham  ON Canada L3R 9W3
Phone: 905-479-7750
Fax:     905-479-7763
e-mail   JWebster@Markham.ca


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Apr 27th, 2007, 11:47am
The Micah Project was one of 4 RFPs approved by York Region last week.  Now we will need to wait for Provincial confirmation, although this will be more of a formality since they have already committed funding to York Region for Affordable housing.  The only change could be the slight reduction of total spaces by 36.

http://www.york.ca/Regional+Government/Agendas+Minutes+and+Reports/_2007/CM+Apr+19+2007.htm

Results of the Request for Proposal Process for the Rental and Supportive Housing Component of the Canada-Ontario Affordable Housing Program (AHP)

It was moved by Mayor Young, seconded by Mayor Black, that Council adopt the recommendations contained in the confidential report (April 11, 2007) of the Community Services and Housing Committee as follows:

1. Regional Council recommend to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing that the following projects receive a conditional commitment, for a total of 271 units, subject to the Ministry increasing the Region's allocation by 36 units, as follows:

- Hesperus Fellowship Community of Ontario/Hesperus Fellowship Village (60 units).

- Kehilla Residential Programme/The Reena Foundation (61 units).

- Markham Interchurch Committee for Affordable Housing (MICAH)/East Markham Non Profit Homes (120 units).

- Mount Albert United Church/Mount Albert United Church Senior's Citizen Foundation (30 units).


2. In the event that the Minister does not increase the Region's allocation by 36 units, Regional staff be authorized to negotiate revised unit allocations with each of the proponents and report back to Regional Council.


3. Subject to receiving a conditional commitment of funding, the Commissioner of Community Services, Housing and Health Services be authorized to enter into Contribution Agreements with each of the recommended projects, each Contribution Agreement being subject to the prior review of Legal Services.


The balance of the report to remain confidential under the provisions of the Municipal Act as it contains information pertaining to the security of municipal property.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Just me on Jun 18th, 2007, 2:37pm

on 09/18/06 at 15:20:13, SW20_MR2 wrote:
I have never liked and never will like the idea of affordable housing in affluent mid- and high-income areas.  I hate to sound elitist, but there is a reason why I paid the money I did to live in this type of area.  

One of my concerns when choosing an area was the look of the neighbourhood once construction had completed.  I want to see nice gardens, beautifully-kept house exteriors, etc.  In low-income housing areas, these types of things are an afterthought - and for good reason since they have other things on their mind.  

I'm all for community housing, but they need to put them in the right area.  In this case, they may be affecting our land values.  I hate to say it, but I certainly would not pay the same price for a home that is located right beside the housing project.



This shocks me and not because of the limited scope.  So you do not want to live next door to this and that.  May I suggest that you never know what you live next door to.  So the nice community may have fathers or uncles who are inappropriate with their children and have been for years, parents who fight and drink too frequently but function and go to work, siblings with substance use issues but manage to get good grades - is this a better neighbourhood.  This is the stereotype of suburban communities so I guess you are well acquainted with this.  A stereotype is a stereotype and my point is do not make the mistake of thinking that these so called nice areas are in fact all nice.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by CornellHopeful on Jun 18th, 2007, 2:44pm
Interesting take, SW20_MR2.  I think the poster was more concerned about how the housing project will look, as far as aesthetics go.  They didn't seem to mention or comment on the types of people who would be living there.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by treehugger on Jun 18th, 2007, 4:54pm
I would also like to mention that many years ago when the Cornell Development was being proposed many people that lived in homes nearby did not like the idea of "affordable housing" being built behind them. Cornell was permitted to be built on a "government sanctioned green zone" because there was a need for more affordable housing.
I must say that after the homes were built and the community took shape I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. Not too crazy that the land was developed but that people really seemed to take care and pride in their home. Values have been steadily increasing.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SW20_MR2 on Jun 18th, 2007, 9:22pm
I have never suggested that a suburb is perfect.  You'd have to be dillusional to think something like that.  

Stereotype or not.  Name one low-income community that looks nice.  Regent park?  Jane/Finch?  


on 06/18/07 at 14:37:28, Just me wrote:
This shocks me and not because of the limited scope.  So you do not want to live next door to this and that.  May I suggest that you never know what you live next door to.  So the nice community may have fathers or uncles who are inappropriate with their children and have been for years, parents who fight and drink too frequently but function and go to work, siblings with substance use issues but manage to get good grades - is this a better neighbourhood.  This is the stereotype of suburban communities so I guess you are well acquainted with this.  A stereotype is a stereotype and my point is do not make the mistake of thinking that these so called nice areas are in fact all nice.


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Just me on Jun 19th, 2007, 9:20am
Those projects built at Jane/Finch, St. Jamestown, Regents Park, Moss Park etc. were built in another time and they were solely low income, in addition they were segregate and streamlined by an administration with their own bias and agenda.  The controls used today with mixed market rent/RGI subsidies are managed in a different manner.  There are co-ops that have been built in the past 10 years that do not resemble the large Metro Housing/Toronto Housing complexes.  Many of these co-ops have equal numbers of people who are paying market value rents and those paying RGI rents simply earn a lower income and both groups care about the property they live in.  I think you may not have had the opportunity to see many of these communities and may have your opinion guided only by Regents Park and Jane/Finch.  I would suggest that you go and visit some of the more successful developments in Toronto.
I would however say that really a good neighbourhood is determined by the quality of families that live there not the curb appeal of your home.  If we pay too much attention to what is seen by people on the outside we neglect to see what is falling apart inside which is usually the relationships between family members.
I do hope that schools and neighbours show their good side if and when this development happens as it would be a shame for children to be unwelcomed because people have decided they should not be allowed to live in Cornell.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Glen River on Jun 20th, 2007, 1:02pm
  Why not incorporate the multi housing or affordable housing in Markham Centre, by Marham Town Centre so that everything is within reach by the residents unlike Cornell where it's like you have to drive al the time because Viva is not extended, very few YRT routes are available.
  There are still a big chunk of vacant lot in that location. ;D

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Just me on Jun 20th, 2007, 1:53pm
not a bad idea since Cornell has an extremely limited infrastructure at this time.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Jun 20th, 2007, 2:55pm
This affordable housing project was initiated by the developer (the United Church).  There would need to be a developer willing to do this near the Town Centre.  

By the time this building is completed in 2010 the Community Centre & Library, which would be located just north of this building, will be open by then.  I would expect a number of retail outlet just south of them to be open by then as well including a grocery store.  York Region transit has committed to extending VIVA to cornell this fall and all buses stopping at the hospital will go down to Bur Oak & Hwy 7 now that Bur Oak is open.  Even though there will be empty fields to the east and west of this building they will have similar or better access to services compared to other areas of Markham.  

The bigger concern is how will they integrate into the rest of Cornell when initially their only immediate neighbours are the hospital, community centre & retail.  Will the kids only play with other children in their building?  The Community Centre would have to play a large role in this.  Does the Town have policies for hardship cases where families can access community services without paying fees?  Can an exemption be made for families in this facility?

There are still lots of questions.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Aug 29th, 2007, 9:23pm
I just got confirmation that MICAH is no longer considering Cornell for this proposal.  They are looking at building this elsewhere in Markham.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Aug 30th, 2007, 3:41am
Thanks for the information Steve, that is very good news!  Now lets hope that the end result for the airport is the same.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by marylou on Aug 30th, 2007, 8:56am
I am totally against this project.  It will certainly not be good for our area. 20 or 25 units can be controlled.  But with the large number proposed all in on area is very big trouble.  It's only common sense.  

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Glen River on Aug 30th, 2007, 9:38am

on 08/30/07 at 09:02:16, AspenRidgeBuyer wrote:
Steve - I was concerned about this project from the very beginning, so I'm not sad that MICAH has backed out, but I'm curious as to whether you have any idea why they decided to look elsewhere?  I was under the impression that they had already received preliminary approval from the Town and that leads me to believe that they had spent at least some money on the project...what made them change their minds?


          Don't be jovial either because who knows what's gonna be built in there, could be same type of building but a different owner.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Aug 31st, 2007, 9:27am
MICAH had received approval from the region, although the location could be changed.  The Town still needed to approve the location.  The United Church decided not to build a church in Cornell so they sold all of their property to a developer.  MICAH's agreements with the United Church then fell apart, so they are now looking elsewhere to build.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Village_Counselor on Aug 31st, 2007, 12:14pm
If this is the case..this would be great. Cause personally, I really do not wish to see myself living next to affordable housing. Also, your house value will go down.

I had worked in Toronto Housing for a good 5 years - managing communities. Been to many areas/community within GTA. My share of experience to my fellow neighbours is...can only say all of them are not good. Yes. The media does blow things up 10x...but honestly, there are problems.

That being said...I am not against helping low income families. There are a lot of families that really needed help.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Nov 21st, 2007, 10:52am
MICAH is not totally dead yet for Cornell, especially if the Town were to allow CornellGate (IBC) to build taller buildings in exchange for giving land to MICAH.

http://cornellgates.com/dataroom/REVIEW%20OF%20LOTS%2025-609500%20AND%2025-611500%20cornell%20markham.pdf

"MICAH- A church organization wanting to build on the property does not have the financial resources to pay for land at the price paid by IBC and would be looking for a special deal. IBC will need to determine how beneficial the relationship is between IBC, MICAH and the Town. Although the Town is very supportive of MICAH's plans for a site in Cornell, another site has been identified in Markham that could meet MICAH's requirements. The site is owned by the Town and would be transferred to MICAH at no charge. MICAH has already submitted to IBC a letter of intent for 1 acre of the property for a price between $ 1.5 – 1.8 million."


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by villagemaker2000 on Nov 21st, 2007, 12:13pm

on 11/21/07 at 10:52:03, SteveH wrote:
MICAH is not totally dead yet for Cornell, especially if the Town were to allow CornellGate (IBC) to build taller buildings in exchange for giving land to MICAH.

http://cornellgates.com/dataroom/REVIEW%20OF%20LOTS%2025-609500%20AND%2025-611500%20cornell%20markham.pdf

"MICAH- A church organization wanting to build on the property does not have the financial resources to pay for land at the price paid by IBC and would be looking for a special deal. IBC will need to determine how beneficial the relationship is between IBC, MICAH and the Town. Although the Town is very supportive of MICAH's plans for a site in Cornell, another site has been identified in Markham that could meet MICAH's requirements. The site is owned by the Town and would be transferred to MICAH at no charge. MICAH has already submitted to IBC a letter of intent for 1 acre of the property for a price between $ 1.5 – 1.8 million."



  Any idea where would that new site be?  thanks!

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Nov 21st, 2007, 1:51pm
This is the same United Church lands that is being purchased by IBC.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by ahmike on Nov 21st, 2007, 3:05pm
I can't imagine why IBC would be willing to give or even sell a portion of their land to a group that wants to build subsidized housing (even in exchange for permission to build taller buildings).  

To succeed, this project has to be marketed to residential/retail/commercial investors.  If I were one of these investors, I certainly would not want to put my money in a location with subsidized housing in the immediate vicinity.  

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Nov 21st, 2007, 3:42pm
ahmike,

I would agree except that IBC doesn't seem to be a traditional developer.  The founder, Firoz Shroff has worked for the United Nations establishing programs integrating social and entrepreneurial values.  Here is one comment from IBC's web site.

http://www.ibcre.com/about.htm

"As part of our group global social responsibility and philanthropic commitment, we endow percentage of our profit to Homeland International Inc to assist them in their endeavors of social and community housing and mixed used development ventures to play a social responsibility and catalyst role to improve quality of life in communities."


Here are some comments from another organization that he founded.

http://www.seconsortium.com/index.htm

"SEC is based on the idea of social entrepreneurship - a concept that combines the passion of a social mission with the exercise of business practice. As such, SE is equally relevant to both corporations and non-profit organizations. It enables social entrepreneurs to meet both social and profit objectives."


I still don't know what could come out of this, but this developer does not have a builders background so their proposal could be different than the norm.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Nov 21st, 2007, 5:03pm
ARB,

Everything is factual, except for the last 2 points.  Those are just speculation based on my interpretation of comments from the Town and IBC.

I don't know the reasons for the offer from MICAH, but it could be they prefer the Cornell location as it is based in a centre and close to required services.  The fact that MICAH presented an offer suggests that this is not dead yet and they may feel something could get done.  I am guessing there is more to this than what was written in this document.  

My understanding is that the other location is somewhere along Kennedy (don't know where).

IBC is a new company will little history.  According to their web site they have over $1B in commitments from equity investors.  Only time will tell if they will consider this.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Delayed on Nov 21st, 2007, 11:01pm
Sorry to jump on the bandwagon a little late but how far along is this process?  Prior to any development, the town would have to hold meetings to hear community arguments in favour or against the development. Has this stage been passed?  I am just concerned (somewhat selfishly) with the idea of having subsidized housing in the area.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Nov 22nd, 2007, 10:23am
We are still a long ways from a public meeting, assuming this project gets to the next stage.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by markdh on Nov 23rd, 2007, 7:54am
Pretty sad that "we" don't want to "mix" with those that are less fortunate, in the continuing battle to make money, in order to spend money, and have materialistic things.  Hmmm.   :-/

As an atheist, I'm not really "into" what the church does, however in this case what better idea than to bring the less fortunate into a nice neighbourhood.

The less fortunate's kids can mix with the fortunate ones, learn the ways of the world and how materialistic it is.  

They can learn to want for nice clothes and fancy cars.  They can see how the "better" people live, with our garages in the backyard, our plant pots nicely organized, many dollars spent on pretty things.

They can yearn to be "better" people so they contribute to society.  Society will ensure that they try to make as much money as they can so they can buy as much as they can.

Then... when society has turned them into the elitists and snobs that have been replying to this post, they can pretend to be people that care about the less fortunate....

... but not in our neighbourhood.   We'll put them far away from us, and throw them pennies if they beg... maybe send them $30 a month because for as little as a dollar a day.............................

....... we'll pretend that we care.



Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by villagemaker2000 on Nov 23rd, 2007, 10:19am

on 11/23/07 at 07:54:58, markdh wrote:
Pretty sad that "we" don't want to "mix" with those that are less fortunate, in the continuing battle to make money, in order to spend money, and have materialistic things.  Hmmm.   :-/

As an atheist, I'm not really "into" what the church does, however in this case what better idea than to bring the less fortunate into a nice neighbourhood.

The less fortunate's kids can mix with the fortunate ones, learn the ways of the world and how materialistic it is.  

They can learn to want for nice clothes and fancy cars.  They can see how the "better" people live, with our garages in the backyard, our plant pots nicely organized, many dollars spent on pretty things.

They can yearn to be "better" people so they contribute to society.  Society will ensure that they try to make as much money as they can so they can buy as much as they can.

Then... when society has turned them into the elitists and snobs that have been replying to this post, they can pretend to be people that care about the less fortunate....

... but not in our neighbourhood.   We'll put them far away from us, and throw them pennies if they beg... maybe send them $30 a month because for as little as a dollar a day.............................

....... we'll pretend that we care.




  Aren't we all hypocrites?

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Glen River on Nov 23rd, 2007, 10:34am

on 11/23/07 at 10:15:59, AspenRidgeBuyer wrote:
Back off markdh.
I am the resident "pot-stirrer" on this board.
That means that I'm the only member that's allowed to piss people off with "extremist" points of view.
If you want to do the same thing, then I suggest that you go find another board.
Maybe Greensborough's board has an opening for a "pot stirrer".
;)


      Don't pass it on to Markdh,  no one else will beat you for that title.  It best suits you.  LOL!

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Rich_and_Val on Nov 23rd, 2007, 10:43am
Please keep comments on topic, let's not resort to accusations and name calling.

Val:)

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by markdh on Nov 23rd, 2007, 10:46am
Village - No we aren't ALL hypocrites... I'd love to live next door to some less fortunate people.  



Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by marylou on Nov 23rd, 2007, 11:34am
Yes, Markdh.  Why are you living in a middle class neighbourhood?   Move to Jane and Finch. and have a good life.  That's if you live that long....LOL

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Rich_and_Val on Nov 23rd, 2007, 11:39am
There is a lot of informative information in this thread, it would be a shame if I had to lock or delete it.

Please refrain from personal jabs.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by humanetouch on Nov 23rd, 2007, 12:11pm
   Correct me if I am wrong.  People who live in the Jane & Finch area are mostly apartment renters not affordable housing owners just like Jamestown which has recovered its reputation somehow.
   Also in Willowdale, there was an affordable housing built there in 2000 but the area hasn't lost its reputation as being a good neighborhood.  In fact the value of the houses there never went down.
   There's always exception to the rule.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by mbds on Nov 23rd, 2007, 3:16pm
I think it all depends on the size and scope of the proposal and who's administering it. From what I understand, MICAH has a very good track record and we're not talking about a large-scale social housing project here. Steve could probably confirm this, but isn't there a MICAH project just off Robinson, west of 48 (Main Street)? This hardly looks like a ghetto and I haven't noticed shopkeepers in the area installing bars on all their windows. There's an affordable housing area on Willowdale Ave in North York, south of Finch...been there for many many years...and it hasn't deterred people from tearing down houses in the area and putting up million dollar homes. I think we just need to avoid a knee-jerk reaction. If and when a proposal comes along, only then can we make an informed and appropriate response.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Cornell_in_progres on Nov 23rd, 2007, 3:21pm
Not so long time ago, We lived on Leslie a little south of Finch. We didn't know at the time that there are 2 social housing projects, one just north of Finch on Leslie, another one 1 traffic light north of Sheppard. We saw people that were not from our townhouse complex gathering late at night in our visitor parking and strange smell was comming from that meeting, but at the time, that was all the interaction we had  ;D.
Only when somebody stole one of our bikes from the garage (the door was open, but it was Saturday afternoon on a nice summer day) we found out (from the Police) that we are close to some not-so-rich-but-also-not-so-honest-people.
We recovered the bike some 2 months after in a funny way. We were driving home and we saw a guy riding a bike simmilar with the stollen one and, being a not-so-politically-correct" citizen, we sort of profiled the guy that was riding the bike (not very expensive, but a good bike) and he didn't fit with it so we follow him in one of the complexes, we approached the police cruiser that was 7/24 there and they approached the guy (they knew quasy-everybody by first name  ;D)  , the guy said, "yeap, it's not mine, it was just here leaning against this post and I just took it for a ride, take it to the rightfull owner, good thing officer that you are here or somebody may have stole it  ::)"... The police told us to be happy that we found it and that he can't do anything against the guy because he will stick to his story and there is no way to prove that he's lying ...

The point is, for sure they (as in the affordable-house-future-tennants) can learn that if you work hard, life is good... But it also may lead to "hey, those rich people yo' have too much anyway, what is a bike/car/toy for them so why bother with this work thingy?"  ...

I have a silly question... why would somebody move people sort of far away from jobs ? It's sort of obvious that nobody will try to find a job that doesn't pay too much if they have to spend 2-3 hours on the road commuting to work when you can sell the odd joint or stolen good and collect your welfare cheque while living in a government subsidized house.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by markdh on Nov 23rd, 2007, 3:41pm
Funny.... I've smelled that funny smell in our neighbourhoods, and cocaine is also a yuppy drug.  

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Cornell_in_progres on Nov 23rd, 2007, 3:56pm
Markdh,
I don't care who smokes and/or drinks what , when and how much .... as long as they don't finance their habit out of my pocket  ;D.

Not sure if you saw a documentary produced by TVO... It was about some kids living in the Malvern project... At the end of the day, their (people living there) conclusion was : why bother to go to work for 10$/hour (that is what they could get based on the skill set they have) when you collect the welfare money and score more than that on a good hour of selling drugs .



Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by markdh on Nov 23rd, 2007, 4:08pm
The local yuppy druggies won't have far to go then when the local low income housing gets built.

New Urbanism at its finest... everything you  need in your neighbourhood.


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SteveH on Nov 29th, 2007, 3:30pm
It looks like the Town is trying to move forward on the Kennedy Road location (North of 14th) with Micah's 5 storey building.

See page 3
http://www.markham.ca/NR/rdonlyres/3607D0A3-0B0E-41A8-AB38-E50E39D4E48D/0/agn_comadjmt_071114pdf.pdf


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by thinkingofcornell on Dec 1st, 2007, 5:57pm
??? Well we live downtown, in a neighbourhood with many interspered subsidized housing projects.  (one at the foot of our tree lined street) Our 15 foot wide semi is worth about 540k.  It is 1100 square feet and not really renovated.  Values have been going up every year....despite subsidized housing. One sold right beside the subsidized lowrise building-renovated for 625k!

Many people who live in subsidized housing work--2 and 3 jobs.  They were educated in other countries, probably more educated than most of us "Canadians". Others have disabilities, developmental and physical, which limit their participation in the work force.  Did you know an individual with downsyndrome who cannot work due to no fault of their own gets only $800 per month to live on????? But no way could someone like that live in your beautiful suburban oasis.  

Shame on all of you. You have made up our minds--no way would we move to Cornell. Maybe if you open your minds to others you too will realize huge property increases.  There aren't any houses in cornell under 1200 square feet that go for $625k!

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Genie on Dec 2nd, 2007, 5:29am

on 12/01/07 at 17:57:23, thinkingofcornell wrote:
??? Shame on all of you. You have made up our minds--no way would we move to Cornell. Maybe if you open your minds to others you too will realize huge property increases.  There aren't any houses in cornell under 1200 square feet that go for $625k!


Right!!  I'm sure it had nothing to do with the downtown location but everything to do with being close to subsidized housing. Even in a fantasy that is not reasonable. Why would you even think of selling your overpriced home and moving to Cornell with all the middle class and leave all of your poor unfortunates behind?  Just what we need - more bleeding hearts!

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SW20_MR2 on Dec 2nd, 2007, 1:24pm
Hahahahaha.  You could build both a crack house and a brothel next to to thinkingofcornell's home, and it would still be worth more than all Cornell homes.


on 12/02/07 at 05:29:27, Genie wrote:
Right!!  I'm sure it had nothing to do with the downtown location but everything to do with being close to subsidized housing. Even in a fantasy that is not reasonable. Why would you even think of selling your overpriced home and moving to Cornell with all the middle class and leave all of your poor unfortunates behind?  Just what we need - more bleeding hearts!


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by thinkingofcornell on Dec 2nd, 2007, 6:14pm

on 12/02/07 at 05:29:27, Genie wrote:
Right!!  I'm sure it had nothing to do with the downtown location but everything to do with being close to subsidized housing. Even in a fantasy that is not reasonable. Why would you even think of selling your overpriced home and moving to Cornell with all the middle class and leave all of your poor unfortunates behind?  Just what we need - more bleeding hearts!



Thanks...you made my point for me. That was the gist of my post. Housing price has nothing to do with the presence of subsidized or assisted housing and everything to do with location, local amenities, transportation,etc.!!!!  Even if MICHA does build something, why would it affect you? If Cornell is a desirable location with easy to live in comfortable homes than your housing value will go up.  If anything is going to affect your housing price it will be the traffic issues--not 29 or so units in the huge cornell development that might house individuals who need to pay less money for their units.
And what is a bleeding heart anyway? Someone who thinks absued women, and people with disabilities and even people with mental illness (shock and horror) should be helped and not scorned.  Okay, I admit it, my heart bleeds.  


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Rich_and_Val on Dec 2nd, 2007, 7:09pm
Could we please keep the to the topic at hand without resorting to attacking other people's opinions?

This is obviously a very heated topic to discuss, but it can be done rationally, and without resorting to personal attacks.

Thank you.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by nickleinonen on Dec 2nd, 2007, 7:33pm
low income housing is a good thing for those that require it, but it can become very bad very quickly. i have seen what the bad can be when i use to work for a company that did insurance repairs. many times the homes were not well kept, the properties were not well kept. neither of which i want to see in my community. i have been to ones that were very nicely kept and met some fine people that i would gladly have as neighbors.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by mbds on Dec 3rd, 2007, 10:34am
It's too bad we're losing you, "thinking of..."...we could use more people like you in our neighbourhood. There are a lot of thoughtful, caring people here....not all of us are 'nimby's'. From what I understood, MICAH's proposal was very modest and they are a 'quality' affordable housing outfit (not an oxymoron). If the less fortunate are welcomed into a community instead of outcast, it goes a long way towards avoiding the problems many associate with affordable housing.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by SW20_MR2 on Dec 3rd, 2007, 11:24am
Not necessarily.  Downtown, it would have zero effect.  In the suburbs, it could have a huge effect.  Like I said earlier, there could be a crack house and a brothel on each side of your house, but people would still pony up the money for your house because you're downtown.  There are few new developments downtown.  That is, you can't just go one street over and buy a brand new house.  Up here, you can.  If someone sees the exact same house as your's with a crack house and brothel on each side, they'd just go 5 minutes down the street and buy a new one.

Also, regarding the MICAH proposal, IMO, York Region is not fit for affordable housing.  Regardless of whether the VIVA terminal is built or not, public transit in York is crap.  It takes way too long to get anywhere by bus.  People would spend 2-3 hours commuting per day within the town itself.


on 12/02/07 at 18:14:18, thinkingofcornell wrote:
Thanks...you made my point for me. That was the gist of my post. Housing price has nothing to do with the presence of subsidized or assisted housing and everything to do with location, local amenities, transportation,etc.!!!!  


Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Deebr on Dec 4th, 2008, 6:51pm
I was chairman of a gala put on by St. Andrew's United Church in 2006 to raise money for the MICAH project.  It  is a respectable group of Markham churches and they do good work. The Water Street Senior Centre is one example.  We raised $20,000 at our event.  I have not been in touch with the project since then but last I heard it was no longer going to happen in Cornell and will move ahead in the area of Kennedy and 14th.    Either way you can trust the group to do the right thing and pull together a very good development.

Title: Re: MICAH Affordable Housing Proposal for Cornell
Post by Ian_Wayne on Dec 6th, 2008, 10:26am
It's time for governments to realize that affordable housing projects are a bad idea and stopped altogether.

The existing housing should be sold and the proceeds put in a trust account for the sole purpose of subsidizing rents for those who need it.

The people who need the help should be told the maximum rent available for their situation and told to find their own place to live. Government would then subsidize that rent with a cheque paid directly to the landlord.

I grew up in government housing and never underdstood why people think its a good idea. It keeps the poor grouped together so they can't see the better side of life, helps creat gangs and keeps people thinking it is hopeless to try anything since they see everyone else is in the same situation.



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